Overcoming Hate with Love: Chris Singleton's Path to Advocacy to Prevent Gun Violence

After his mother, Sharonda Coleman-Singleton, was killed in the Mother Emanuel AME church shooting in 2015, Chris Singleton became a beacon of resilience and unity in the face of unthinkable tragedy. His story of losing his mother in a horrific hate crime and then transforming that unimaginable pain into a life dedicated to combating gun violence and racism is both heartbreaking and awe-inspiring. As he takes us on his journey from a grieving teenager to an impassioned advocate, Chris’s reflections on his mother’s unyielding support during his baseball games and his desire emphasizing love over hate and recognizing our shared humanity above our differences is marked with humor and kindness.

You can find Chris' books, including his most recent "Stories Behind Stances," here.  

Further reading:
5 Years After Charleston Church Massacre, What Have We Learned? (NPR)
'Hate Crime': A Mass Killing at a Historic Church (the Atlantic)
What Forgiveness Means Nearly 5 Years After Emanuel AME Church Mass Shooting (WBUR)
Buffalo slayings hit close to home for former baseball player 900 miles away (NPR)
Chris Singleton ‘Changed His Mission’ When A White Supremacist Killed His Mother In Charleston Church Shooting (the Village Celebration)
Remembering the Mother Emanuel Nine eight years later (WLTX)

Transcript

JJ Janflone: 0:08

This is the legal disclaimer, where I tell you that the views, thoughts and opinion shared on this podcast belong solely to our guests and hosts and not necessarily Brady or Brady's affiliates. Please note this podcast contains discussions of violence that some people may find disturbing. It's okay, we find it disturbing too. Hey, everybody, welcome back to another episode of Red Bull and Brady. I'm one of your hosts, jj.

Kelly Sampson: 0:47

And I'm Kelly, your other host.

JJ Janflone: 0:49

And listeners. Just so you know, every time I get an email from Kelly saying, oh, I've got a new friend for us, I've got somebody I have to bring on the podcast, I'm like, yes, bring it on, because Kelly finds the most amazing guests for this podcast and I cannot think of a better guest, probably, than Chris Singleton.

Kelly Sampson: 1:04

I emailed JJ just as she said. I was at a conference earlier this summer and Chris was actually on a panel that I was part of and he really sort of captured the whole room, because Chris lost his mother in the shooting at Mother Emmanuel Church and that put him on this path to really wanting to bring peace and love to such a violent world and in a panel where you know I was talking so much about the Supreme Court and policy, chris being able to say I am a human being, this is how gun violence impacted me and these are the ways that I'm going to make sure I use my life and my story so that other people don't have to experience this pain. It was just really, it was really impactful, and so I reached out to JJ and I was like all right, we got to invite Chris on the show and make sure that listeners also get to experience and hear the way that he is determined to remain hopeful and remain a person of peace despite all the violence that we're seeing.

JJ Janflone: 2:07

And if you were someone who's wondering, like, how do you keep positivity in the face of something that maybe feels so huge and powerful and murky as gun violence, I think, chris, is definitely kind of like the breath of fresh, lovely air that you're probably going to need this morning.

Kelly Sampson: 2:25

Totally agree.

Chris Singleton : 2:27

My name is Chris Singleton, husband to my high school sweetheart. I got three beautiful kids with my wife, inspirational speaker and a former pro baseball player Wonderful.

Kelly Sampson: 2:39

I got a good file there, and this is a part of the JJ. And I always hate and find really difficult on this podcast is that we meet wonderful people like you and we wish we could talk about all the great things in your life, but your mother was killed in a hate-based attack in 2015. And so, if you're comfortable to the extent that you're comfortable I'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit about her.

Chris Singleton : 3:00

Yeah, so, like you mentioned, well, the whole reason why I started speaking and writing and all that stuff is because of losing my mom. I lost my mom in a racially motivated mass shooting in Charleston, south Carolina, back in 2015. She was 45 years young. She's a track coach, children's church pastor at our church my biggest fan, of course, when I was on the field on the court and she's just a great human being, very smart, very well-spoken. So that's that. She's my hero. And, yeah, unfortunately, she was one of the nine victims at Mother Emanuel AME Church in Charleston.

JJ Janflone: 3:37

And I wonder like, as Kelly said, this is the hardest part, right, Because it's not doing a Devon's for Richard podcast. We don't get to ask you the questions that we would ask an old person. What if we just happened to meet and you'd be telling us that we'd be like, well, tell me about being a baseball player, Tell me about your kids, Let me see their pictures, Like that sort of thing. And instead we're like tell me about a trauma. But maybe on the braider side of things I'm wondering. We always ask folks like did you have a favorite memory with her, Maybe that you'd want to share with the podcast?

Chris Singleton : 4:05

Yeah, and I'm totally open to discussing. You know the tragedy that happened. You know the whole reason why I do the work that I do today is because of what happened to my mom. So don't feel like you have to shy away from anything. I talk about it almost every, every day and it's not easy to talk about, but I feel like when people know the real and they see Actual people who are affected by something like this, it's definitely impactful.

Chris Singleton : 4:31

So I guess one of the best memories I have my mom is I think I was in like third grade, living in Atlanta, and you know she was screaming and cheering in the stands when I was playing baseball, and it's such a good memory because when I became a senior in high school, the exact same she or she did when I was a, you know, a little kid she was doing that at my high school playoff games, and so that those memories are amazing. Christmas is a big time for our family because Christmas is always a time where we all came together and, no matter what craziness was happening in the world, we just love one another and we were present with one another, and so Christmas is a big holiday that I always remember my mom on, and there's so many other things, but those are some memories that I think I I'd love to share with you guys today.

JJ Janflone: 5:14

Well, and, as you just mentioned, in the wake of that mass shooting, you've been outspoken not just about ending gun violence but also about Confronting and dealing with races and hate more broadly, and I'm wondering if you could share how you go from, you know, being an 18 year old who's lost your mom to being someone who's kind of working in this field as an activist professionally.

Chris Singleton : 5:36

Yeah, absolutely so. When my mom was taken away At first, there was an ESPN documentary done on you know me and my story and my mom's story About my first time coming back to play baseball. After ESPN did the documentary Me, as well as some other family members there's probably three or four family members that were that forgave the shooter initially and I was on the today show, had to throw out the first pitch for the Yankees, and so a bunch of different things in the media were happening and People were saying you know well, chris, we love you to speak to my you know, high school or my travel baseball team and I always said no, like you know, already told people I had to say it after after a while that the interviews would became the same and that, but it's not your, your job, you're like man, I don't want to talk about this anymore. Right, if this is not your mission, it's, you know, it's traumatizing. So I said no, I'm not doing that.

Chris Singleton : 6:28

And then finally there was an organization that reached out to me and they said, chris, we're giving you an award. There's gonna be lots of moms here that fell moms, nba moms, and we feel like your mom would be in the audience. Would you share with them? I got the award. I shared for, you know, five minutes or so, a Super nervous to do it, because we're talking about my life and you know my mom After I did it, there was a lady came up to me and said, chris, I know you're playing sports, but you got to keep doing this. What you did here today and after that moment whether I was playing sports or, you know, even after I got done playing this has been the mission of unity, of resilience, of love and Trying to get terrible things to stop happening in this world. So that's the mission that I'm on.

Kelly Sampson: 7:11

Yeah, and I I mean I can speak for myself. I remember when you and the other two people that you mentioned came out, it was so Incredible the message that you all conveyed and forgiveness in a space a lot of people cannot comprehend. And you sort of continue to this day talking about love over hate in the work that you do, and I'm wondering what are you hoping to convey by emphasizing so much over and over again that we have to have love over hate?

Chris Singleton : 7:40

Yeah, well, first and foremost, I don't want people to think that, you know, it's all sunshine and rainbows when I think about my mother's killer, right? That's not real, that's not practical. You know, my faith tells me to get slapped on one side and turn the other cheek to get hit again. Now I, I will forgive the person, but I don't want to get hit again, right? So for me in my life, when I talk about love being stronger than the hate, mainly is talking about hey, how do we find the things that we're more alike than different about, right? So, if you know you love a specific sports team, that's usually reason why you like that sports team, and vice versa for it to me, right?

Chris Singleton : 8:16

If my first language is this, I didn't choose it, neither did you, so I don't want to learn to love your culture, whether it's you know, learn Italian, or you know Brazilian steakhouse is like my wife is from Brazil, like. Whatever it may be, we don't, we're not the same. But learn to love different things about different cultures, different people, will hopefully stop some of the hatred that just is Tarnishing our world right now, and that's the mission that I'm on is teaching that love is spreading that love. I'm thankful to do it, but I know there's still a lot of work that needs to be done.

JJ Janflone: 8:46

I was curious even why you view forgiveness as you know, like why. Why is it so important to you, or was important for even your journey To do that right? We've had survivors on who have talked about like how healing it is for them, but then also how they feel that forgiveness fitting into. We live in a very violent world. I.

Chris Singleton : 9:06

Yeah, and I think, opposed to popular belief, I don't think forgiveness is for everybody If it drives you to be a better person. Some people say, you know, maybe they lost their son to a drunk driver and they've never forgiven that drunk driver, but because they've never forgiven, it drives them to push forward the mission of stopping drunk driving right. So in that case, if there's nothing for them with forgiveness, I understand it might not be for you, but for me and for some other people that I've experienced it with, it's freeing because I don't have to think about my mother's killer, I don't have to think about where he's at, I don't have to think about the thoughts that he's having today. It frees me from that, you know. So I'm able to live my life.

Chris Singleton : 9:51

There's a famous quote. I don't even know who said it, but the quote says forgiveness is like setting a prisoner free, only to later realize you yourself are the prisoner. And I've seen that happen in so many cases where because somebody wrong does we think I mean, if I forgive them, I'm letting them off the hook. But you're not, you're letting yourself off the hook. So forgiveness for me doesn't mean that I have to, for lack of better words, be best friends with my mother's killer. That's not what it is. Forgiveness to me is saying, hey, I have enough courage now to. I would even have a conversation with them to try to stop future things like this from happening in our world. And I know I wouldn't be able to do that had I not forgiven him. So that's what I feel like. I know what's on the other side of forgiveness for me and now that I know what's on the other side of it not feeling consumed with the person that wronged you that's what the process is for me and that's what it looks like practically in my life.

Kelly Sampson: 10:45

Thanks for kind of laying that out. And you mentioned before that at first this wasn't your job. You're a baseball player. You were sort of pulled into this involuntarily when you were 18. And I'm wondering, be unfortunately, be continue to see people who are sort of radicalized and filled with hate committing acts of violence and have your thoughts or your attitudes or your approach to gun violence and hate and racism, how would they change since you were 18? And as you sort of matured? Now your husband, your father, has your approach changed.

Chris Singleton : 11:23

Yeah, I wouldn't say my. I would say my approach has changed. It used to be just to students I was sharing with, and now it's more adults and realizing, hey, the kids are getting this from somewhere right. And as much as I love them, my message of love, of unity, if they go home and their dad says, don't you ever say that around me in this house again, unfortunately it could be in one ear out the other ear. So really driving it home to parents, making sure parents know how much they mean to the world and unfortunately some parents are teaching wrong every single day. So if you're an uncle or an aunt or a grandparent that can have some influence, definitely use it because it's really needed.

Chris Singleton : 12:02

But it does hurt me when I see stuff happen like what we just saw in Florida at the dollar store. It hurts me when I see stuff happening in churches still, and it's not easy to see that stuff. But instead of it used to demoralize me and say, man, does it even matter what I'm doing? But I've actually seen people say, chris, I used to think this way about people that look like you. Your message today changed my level of thinking. So seeing the fruit from this keeps me going, and seeing stuff that happens in the world still keeps me motivated.

JJ Janflone: 12:36

I always think hate is such an interesting thing because it's taught, which then inversely means that it can be, you can be educated out of it, you could have that experience out of it. But it's got to be, as you just mentioned, when you see another shooting. That's got to be personally harmful for you and for your family, beyond just professionally, I'm sure, especially again because the attack against your mother and her church was hate-based, and so that's got to be an added level of just harsh.

Chris Singleton : 13:08

Yeah, absolutely. When the shooting happened at the grocery store up in Buffalo, it was a day of me thinking like what can I do? Because I need to be doing something. And so I basically told my wife, hey, I want to go up there, I want to go to some schools, I want to love on some kids. I met a kid that lost his grandmother. So just talking to him and saying, hey, I know what it feels like to lose somebody you love in a terrible, terrible way. I don't know what you're going through, because it's definitely different and he's a lot younger, but just having him to talk to me and actually cry in front of me was important and powerful. So it's definitely not easy. It hurts me. On a professional level. It makes me question does it really make an impact, or should I be staying home instead of going 150 days a year? But on a personal level, like man, I know the pain that people are experiencing, so it keeps me driving forward.

Kelly Sampson: 14:02

And I'm glad I mean you mentioned to how your mother was at church and then you've talked about how your faith has drives you to, and I think that's so important because too often at least in the work that JJ and I do we'll often see people claiming that Jesus is for AR-15s or something like that, and so your message around love over hate and peace and unity, I think is so important and so powerful in the ways that the conversation has sort of gone off the rails and almost taken on a religious fervor.

Chris Singleton : 14:40

Yeah, I've seen that and it's unfortunate because when you talk about, you know, in my faith especially, you know being a follower of Jesus, the most non-aggressive, loving, selfless person. You know so and most faiths, like just being a good person, would let you think, hey, love people, that's like a universal thing. And whatever faith somebody follows or is a part of, or even having no faith at all, like just being a good person, is a part of humanity. And yeah, hey, when sometimes people you know they see something, they make it something that is not just to fit their agenda and that's unfortunate for sure.

JJ Janflone: 15:21

Sometimes I think, though, it can feel like that's such a burden on folks that I have to educate myself if that makes sense, you know, particularly if, like that, I have to, like educate someone for my rights to vote or something like that. But what do you think about that kind of that? Does this place sort of that inverse that, like I'm having to take on the burden to convince you not to hate me, or I'm trying to have to take on the burden to convince you not to, you know, harm me and my place of worship? Yeah, for sure.

Chris Singleton : 15:48

Yeah, some people. I can see that. I could also see where people say it's an obligation. I feel like I'm obligated to do this, but I think it's more of an opportunity, like if I go back to just thinking about voting or whatever. It may be like, oh man, now I have to do this, I have to talk to people about this, or I have to talk. You know, I just feel like my great-great-grandfather wouldn't even have this opportunity. So how is it a burden? I don't feel obligated. I feel like man. I'm able to.

Chris Singleton : 16:16

Maya Angelou has a quote I come as one, but stand as 10,000. So anytime I feel like man, I feel obligated to do something, I say no. My 10,000 that came before me gave me this opportunity and who am I to sit on my hands and not do anything with it? So that's just the way that I feel. But it's also like I'm so deeply affected by it that it just motivates me and pushes me forward. And not everybody's going to be that way. Some people will be champions in silence or in the dark, and you need those people too. But whatever you feel comfortable with, make sure you go out and do it.

JJ Janflone: 16:48

And this kind of I think then ties into it, because I know you've touched on everything you've talked about so far with us in your books, because you're also a pretty prolific author as well. You've got children's books, you've got a most recent book that's just come out and I'm wondering, before we talk about the most recent book, if I can ask you, why was your focus initially? Why was it important for you to have that children's-based content?

Chris Singleton : 17:08

Yeah, good question. The reason why I started doing children's books is because I was speaking to middle schools, high schools, a lot of companies, sports teams, college, professional. But I said my story is too sad for little kids is what I always said. There's a second grader out there that thinks that the world is all sunshine and rainbows and butterflies. Who is Chris Singleton to come in and say, hey, unfortunately somebody took my mom away and it got off away right. So I didn't want to take away a kid's innocence. But what I said was my sister actually said hey, chris, you can do that with writing books.

Chris Singleton : 17:43

And so wrote my first children's book and I got extremely lucky. Some really cool people, the Obama Foundation shared it and people got the message and it's all about loving people that are different than you are. And then I said, hey, if this works, man, I want to keep this message going. I used to say I was going to go to every single school in the country. I don't know if you know how many schools there are, but that cannot happen. But your books can get out there and that's what I've been trying to do with the kids' books. It's been a lot of fun. I've got a really good publisher named David Miles who helps me out now in California. So it's been a good journey so far with the children's books, and that's why I started.

Kelly Sampson: 18:20

Yeah, I mean to JJ's point about, hey, it's taught and can be untaught. I certainly I'm 36 years old and I still remember a book that I read when I was six and the ways that they sort of impacted me in the lessons that they taught me. So you're definitely planning some seed that hopefully, when kids get older, you know, or even as they're encountering different things, it'll sort of help them to have empathy and understanding people who don't look like them.

Chris Singleton : 18:47

Absolutely. That's the plan, that's the goal, so hopefully it sticks with these kids for decades until they have families one day.

JJ Janflone: 18:56

I wonder too for the newest book, which is definitely, I think, more geared towards an adult audience. Can you walk us through that? Is this just to focus, kind of, as you said, who is teaching these kids? Was it aimed for that, or yeah?

Chris Singleton : 19:11

So this well, as I mentioned before, I could love these kids all day long. I can get the teachers to love on them, but if they're going home and they're getting different messages, then hopefully it's not all for nothing, but sometimes it is. So I said, okay, well, how do I get the same type of message of unity, of understanding, out to other people? And I said, okay, well, I can write a book for adults, and that's what the book stories behind stances is. So my mission of unity isn't that we think the same or believe the same, but we'll have a certain level of respect for everybody, no matter what their belief is.

Chris Singleton : 19:45

And I have different topics that are very controversial in the book and we get both sides of the story, why somebody might like this or might hate this. I get my personal story of how I don't like guns because my mom was shot and killed in church, and when most people understand that, they say you know what, chris? I get it right. But if there's a kid that grew up hunting his whole life with his grandfather and they go, they go deer hunting and twice a year and he feels safe around guns, I understand why he feels safe, because that's what we deal with his grandfather. But unfortunately, if I walk into most rooms, as you guys know, and I say I don't like guns, we might have 20% of people immediately say I can never listen to anything else Chris says because he doesn't like guns.

Kelly Sampson: 20:26

And in this book I try to get more people to be empathetic to other people's stories, because we all have one, one of the coolest things about the way that you use books and storytelling in helping to create some positive changes that oftentimes, with gun violence, there are some people who will say, well, it's not really about the guns, it's about X, y or Z issue and whether or not someone believes that, or I think what you're doing is showing that. Okay, if you there are so many facets for this that if you want to talk about people and their attitudes, then do something about it, and it's very cool that you're using your talent for storytelling to really do some of that work. That is important and is an aspect of this.

Chris Singleton : 21:13

I appreciate that, yeah, and I've seen that they'll say well, it's not the weapon, is the person. Or they'll say it's not, this is that, and for me I'm like okay, well, whatever argument somebody has, I want them to see every single side of it so that there's empathy and say you know what, now I understand, I won't probably say that anymore. Maybe I don't agree with you, chris, but I understand where you're coming from and that's my goal at all times.

JJ Janflone: 21:37

It's sort of this kind of, I think, like repeated appeal to humanity, which and the sort of baseline of like that we all exist and we all deserve to live and be happy, which is a direct attack that on a lot of racist ideals like those held, you know, even by the shooter in Charleston or the shooter in Buffalo or the shooter at Dollar Tree, these folks who are espousing like a very particular hate health rhetoric, like even this conception that you're pushing is so fundamentally different from them, but it's such a loving position to come from rather than an offensive one. I think that's really powerful too.

Chris Singleton : 22:10

Yeah for sure. I wholeheartedly believe we don't move the needle unless they're understanding, you know, even if somebody's dead wrong and you tell them two plus two equals four, and they're saying it equals seven, If you don't give them an explanation of you know what let me get this see this way they will tell you seven till the day they die. And so I've learned that with my mission, and I'm just trying to open people's hearts so that they can get the message that I have to share.

JJ Janflone: 22:40

I wonder to that end and this might be an unfair question, so please feel free to tell me if it is but you know, I'm wondering if there's one message you could share, if this goes out right now to a listener who is like hateful, who is racist or who is you know who is hate listening to Red Blue and Brady right now, you know, is there a message that you would want them to have as they listen to this?

Chris Singleton : 23:04

Yeah, for a second. I just want people to stop and think about who they are and why they are the way that they are, and there's usually two reasons they were taught to be that way, or they experienced something that made them that way, and that is literally everything. That is. Hey, hey. Why do you love this team? Why do you love this music? Oh well, I remember on Sunday morning, my mom was cleaning out listening to this music, and I love it now, right? Or I grew up watching this team, where my grandfather would listen to these teams, and now I look Every single thing.

Chris Singleton : 23:34

There's usually reasons why you like what you like and who you are, and so the fact that somebody would hate somebody else because they have a different first language than they do, even though they didn't choose it themselves, it doesn't make any sense to me, and I want people to just stop and think about the things that they enjoy, the way that they vote, every single thing. There's usually reasons why they might experience something. Hey, chris, I was born into a family that loved this and I was taught to love this, but then I had this experience and it changed my way of thinking, and I want people to just stop and think about your experiences that you've had and what you've been taught. It probably led you to where you are. So who are you to hate somebody else if they've had different experiences or they've been taught different than you? So I don't believe in my mission of unity, isn't that way the same? But we have respect for everybody.

Kelly Sampson: 24:22

I think that's a great. I love that you kind of said just take a moment and pause, because I think all of us self-included, have sort of sometimes like an automatic response to certain things that are different or that we're not familiar with, whether it's something you know, whether it's a hate reaction or just like a knee-jerk reaction, and that's definitely something we see in this space sometimes where something happens there's a shooting, and people are just off and running and not stopping at think and so on, and so kind of along the same lines of talking directly to listeners, if there's someone who is concerned about gun violence or they're concerned about hate, is there a message that you would have for those type of people who are listening and maybe they're feeling like you know what, nothing's gonna change, I'm discouraged. Is there something you would wanna say to those sorts of listeners?

Chris Singleton : 25:11

Yeah, I think every generation. There's a feeling of, hey, there's some people that think nothing's gonna change. Right, it happens, you know, it happened with Jim Crow, it happened with women's rights, it happened with, it happens today and with what you all are striving for, what I'm striving for. So I think there will always be people that say, hey, nothing's gonna change, no matter what you do. But to the people that say, hey, I don't know how much I can do, but I wanna help.

Chris Singleton : 25:37

Listen to podcasts like this, checking what the laws are in your state are super important. I check my friends and family, you know. I have a really good friend who you know, carries a gun, and I always ask him questions about it. I wanna learn from him. What does that do for you Like? I like to ask him these questions. So just know where the people are coming from is important. And then, when it's time to vote, you know, vote with your heart and your head right. So you know for a fact, when this person championed something that you think is important and when that's the case, do your part. I'm a young guy, but I feel like that matters. And you know for generations, people that look like me weren't able to do that. So I think it's super important that we can, and we use that to our best of our abilities now.

Kelly Sampson: 26:27

All right. That really resonates with me too, because someone who also has to send it from people who were enslaved, if they could keep going and have hope in the face of that, then I definitely can, because I think that's just like an incredible example, and we have so appreciated your time.

Chris Singleton : 26:46

And I think you're doing a phenomenal job. So I'm thankful that you guys have me on and I'm gonna be tuning in from now on, so I'm looking to see who you guys got next.

JJ Janflone: 26:56

Oh well, thank you. We appreciate that and anyone who's working in this space, particularly who's coming from an impacted background, I appreciate so much because I know that this is talking about this. Every day is hard for Kelly and I and we're not survivors, right, so it's I appreciate people putting themselves through it again and again to save other people from experiencing a fraction of that pain. So I just we really appreciate you and your time and you take a time away from Freakute, who I'm sure were very cute babies. And for folks who wanna find you and the book, where can they find you?

Chris Singleton : 27:34

Yep, everybody can go to chrissingletoncom. That's one of my books, my booking, my everything, my social medias you'll see all of it chrissingletoncom.

JJ Janflone: 27:44

Amazing and that'll be linked in the description of this episode ["Singleton"] hey wanna share with the podcast. Listeners can now get in touch with us here at Red Blue and Brady via phone or text message. Simply call or text us at 480-744-3452 with your thoughts, questions, concerns, ideas, cat pictures, whatever.

Kelly Sampson: 28:05

Thanks for listening. As always, brady's lifesaving work in Congress, the courts and communities across the country is made possible thanks to you. For more information on Brady or how to get involved in the fight against gun violence, please like and subscribe to the podcast. Get in touch with us at bradyunitedorg or on social at Brady Buzz. Be brave and remember. Take action, not sides. ["singleton"]. ["singleton"].