229: Taking Steps to Show Gun Safety on Screen

Writer, producer, and director Matt Nix (True Lies, the Good Guys, Burn Notice) shares his unique perspective on the Show Your Safety campaign, and how Hollywood can be a change-driver by encapsulating messages of responsible gun ownership within captivating (and realistic) storylines. With JJ, Matt breaks down how crafting narratives on responsible gun ownership and gun safety messages isn't impossible, how more folks want a John Wick gun safe than you might think, and how storytelling isn't hampered with a fight for social good.

Further reading:
Hollywood Actors, Directors, Creators Discuss Gun Safety (Brady)
Gun Guidelines for the Media (Hollywood Health and Society)
Brady Organization Calls On Hollywood To Examine Onscreen Gun Violence; Hundreds Of Writers, Producers & Directors Sign Pledge (Deadline)
'Yellowstone' and Hollywood's Quiet Pivot to Showing Gun Safety Onscreen (the Ankler)
 House Roundtable: ‘Hollywood Has Been Due for a Reckoning’ (Variety)

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

This is the legal disclaimer, where I tell you that the views, thoughts and opinions shared on this podcast belong solely to our guests and hosts and not necessarily Brady or Brady's affiliates. Please note this podcast contains discussions of violence that some people may find disturbing. It's okay, we find it disturbing. Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Red Bloom Brady. I'm one of your hosts, jj, and I'm so excited today as we continue our Show Your Safety series, all where we're talking to creative folks about how they use their storytelling abilities to combat gun violence. Today I was so lucky to speak with Matt Nix. He's a producer, a writer, a director, an all-around brilliant guy. Matt was so kind to sit down with us and talk about all of the ways in which showing safe storage narratives on screen can maybe help shift cultural norms and ultimately prevent gun violence.

Speaker 2: 1:20

I am Matt Nix. I'm a writer, producer and sometimes director in Los Angeles, currently probably best known for creating and running the show Burn Notice on USA some years ago. But since then I've done a lot of different shows. I did a show called The Gifted on Fox It was an X-Men show that ran for a couple years and I'm currently doing True Lies on CBS.

Speaker 1: 1:45

And your voice is in Burn Notice, So add voice actor to that right.

Speaker 2: 1:50

Yes, Yes, it actually is. Yes, I'm the guy who says we got a Burn Notice on you. You're blacklisted. I'm also the voice of the computer in True Lies. So yes, my voice. acting accounts are everywhere. You're welcome.

Speaker 1: 2:03

Everyone on the podcast is going to get to enjoy it now too with us, And I'm wondering if you can maybe break down why it is that you're in DC here today, beyond just to enjoy the fact that it's starting to become DC summer.

Speaker 2: 2:16

Yeah, what brings me here today is that a year and a half ago, i had a delightful meeting with some folks from the Brady campaign. That's the official name, the Brady campaign Just Brady.

Speaker 1: 2:27

Brady, kind of like Just Prince, we're just Brady.

Speaker 2: 2:31

Yeah, okay, all right, it's an organization named Brady. So, yes, i had a delightful coffee with some folks and signed onto this campaign And then they said, hey, do you want to come to DC? And I was like, great, i'd love to come to DC. And so I got on a plane and here I am.

Speaker 1: 2:46

Yeah, and that campaign that you signed on for that a lot of folks did is called the Show Your Safety campaign And it's a really large initiative. We're asking, i think, kind of a lot of creative folks out there in the world to kind of maybe modify or think about the way it is that they're showing firearms and firearms ownership on TV And I wonder, or in other forms of media, and I wonder if you could maybe explain, as a creator, why that is something that's actually important to you, kind of that adoption.

Speaker 2: 3:16

I think that One of the things that really appealed to me about the campaign, because, I mean, I'll be perfectly honest. When I sat down with the folks from Brady, I was like I need you to understand as I go into this meeting. You may not want to be talking to me, right? I am doing shows like I do adventure shows, I do action shows, I do shows that involve a lot of firearms, like it's just, you know, cop shows.

Speaker 1: 3:44

Bernodas has a Wikipedia about the guns. Oh yeah, Because it's spies doing spy stuff, of course.

Speaker 2: 3:50

And we were constantly like changing up weapons and that kind of thing, and there was a lot of sort of nitty gritty about weapons and sort of how they worked and you know which ones were better for which applications And you know. So I mean, one of a really exciting day on Bernodas was when I found these. There's a special ammunition that is used when shooting electronics with a shotgun. I was like, oh, there are these little titanium cubes and you shoot them out of a shotgun and they will destroy electronics. I was like that's fantastic, i'm so excited. So, but that's the sort of thing that I've done a lot of. And I was like, so if what you're looking for is people who are like not doing that, or people are going to like not write stories that involve firearms and stuff, i'm not your guy, right? And they were like, no, no, no, that that's. You know that that's not what this is about. It's really about portraying gun safety on television in a way that you know will reach people. And what was exciting for me about that was I was like, yeah, that I can totally do That I would love to do. Right, that is fantastic Because I think that, you know, obviously it's a very charged issue.

Speaker 2: 5:05

There's a lot of there's.

Speaker 2: 5:07

Sometimes it seems like there's not a lot of middle ground, but, like, how do you argue against gun safety?

Speaker 2: 5:12

You know, i mean, it's ultimately that's a pretty straightforward thing, and the appeal of saying, hey, we can do for this what we did for safe for seatbelts or what we did for cigarettes or that kind of thing, just, you know, showing best practices on television, it was really appealing to me And it was a way that I could participate in this really important issue in a way that actually worked with what I was doing.

Speaker 2: 5:37

I would also say that one thing that was really exciting for me is when I've, when I've seen things in Hollywood about these kinds of issues over the years, there's just been a lot of preaching to the choir. Right, it's like, oh really, this show that is obviously anti gun is going to, you know, like, be even more anti gun. OK, well, who are you reaching? Like you're reaching the same people that they already believe you that you don't need that, right. And for me, like, as someone with a big audience of I'm burned out a certainly huge audience of gun owners, huge, right, that was for me like, oh, this is a way that I can participate and actually reach people where it might matter.

Speaker 1: 6:26

Yeah, you're not telling people who don't own a gun to not go out and buy a gun. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 6:31

It's like here's how to store the gun you don't own safely. Right, we need to reach people who own guns and care about guns and, you know, encourage them. And one of the things that I talked to the Brady folks about was when I was doing burn notice. torture was really big in the news at the time.

Speaker 2: 6:51

And I kind of made a rule on the show We don't do torture Right, and so there was a big voiceover element on the show and they would sort of explain how things worked and stuff, and so I would just have the characters talk about, you know, in the voiceovers or between each other, just the raw fact that torture doesn't work Right. It's like OK, knock yourself out Right. And for me it was always like looking at shows where you know you're questioning somebody and then you shoot them in the leg and then they give you the answer. If it was that simple, i think I don't think we'd really need to question people. It would just be like just get a dedicated leg shooting rig and then they just give you all the answers Right.

Speaker 1: 7:35

And so we always did deception or befriending or like all of the things that people really do to get information out of the tactics that have been shown to actually to work, as opposed to the ones that we feel emotionally would work. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2: 7:50

Exactly, yeah. And the other thing is and this is just a thing about Hollywood One of the things about torture is it's a really convenient way to run us to write a scene, right, because you know how long is the scene going to be. It's going to be like a page and a half, so there's going to be like tell me, i'll never tell you. You have to tell me. I'll never tell you, i'll shoot you in the leg, i don't care, blam, all right, i'll tell you, right.

Speaker 2: 8:14

Okay, that's about a minute and a half right, and then you know we're on to the next thing.

Speaker 1: 8:20

It's a close. it's a small set, don't need a lot of dressing, Yeah exactly. And I'm sure, narratively it's useful, right, because it's bam. Not only that, but also ah, this is the good character, this is the bad character, like it sets up, there's a lot you can do with that, right, but if it's not helpful to the wider world, i think that's the balance, right?

Speaker 2: 8:36

Yeah, and I think we just and there was one of my proudest moments on that show was I was contacted by a Senate staffer who had been people had been in a congressional meeting talking about the 24 scenario, right, and why torture might be necessary in the 24 scenario. And she came back with, well, what about the burn notice scenario? Like, if we're talking about TV shows, they did that same thing and they didn't torture. Why don't we do that? right, i was like yes, exactly right. And so that was a case where I saw, i mean, did we change the world? No, i mean like there was still a huge torture scandal. I didn't stop that.

Speaker 2: 9:21

But I did realize like okay, this is a thing that can make a difference. And you know, i mean it's funny. Like when you talk about burn notice, like nobody in Hollywood seen burn notice, like they're vaguely aware of it, but like go to a military base, oh yeah, they've seen it right. Like that's the kind of thing. And that's a great example of like well, you know who should hear the sort of like torture doesn't work, message A bunch of Hollywood liberals or a bunch of people on military bases, i'm gonna go with the military bases. And so that was one of the reasons that I was so enthusiastic about this. I was like, yeah, like let me do it. And so as soon as I got out of that meeting, i just got on the phone with the folks from the true lies. You know, when we were cause, we were building the sets And I was like, guys, we're doing gun safes, bunch of gun safes, and so it was super fun.

Speaker 1: 10:16

And I, for folks who might not be aware of, i think, kind of like TV in particular, i think has had such a big impact on norm change in the US for a number of things. Like you mentioned, smoking, you used to see people smoke perpetually in TV shows. They cut that out. But just seeing characters, like beloved characters, put a seatbelt on made people who go well, no, that's not, i don't need to wear it, it's not safe. I'm safer if I don't have one. Go well, no, if, like, my favorite character does it, i'll do it. There's all these sort of safety things that I think come out of what folks see when they're sitting at home at night. And you don't maybe you're not like I know I don't consume a lot of media in the evening. When I'm sitting home to watch the office for the 87th time, i'm not doing it to like have a lot of deep thoughts, it's myself, i'm just enjoying it. But there are things you learn and pick up from just what you consume.

Speaker 1: 11:04

And so hey, he gets home, put something in a safe. It's an easy connection that if it's repeated enough and people have a connection to that character, i could see folks going out to buy one.

Speaker 2: 11:15

Yeah, although I would even go beyond that, because certainly there are habitual. I would actually say an almost better example. What I would aspire to is what's sold smoking to begin with.

Speaker 1: 11:31

Oh, yeah, right.

Speaker 2: 11:33

Because like okay, you go on TV and like people are not smoking. Okay how much is that changing behaviors Right? I would argue that one of the biggest things that changed behaviors around smoking was showing smoking as a thing that was unhealthy.

Speaker 3: 11:52

Oh yeah, sure.

Speaker 1: 11:52

Or just like Here's your diseased lungs. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2: 11:56

But not even so much that like here's your diseased lungs, because people can turn that off. People can, they can, just that's not me. I can't see my own lungs. Maybe my lungs are like I don't want to think about it.

Speaker 2: 12:08

But when smoking a big thing that happened on TV is smoking became a thing that low-lifes did, smoking became more of kind of a weakness, an indulgence. But how did smoking get popularized? It was cool. It was like the long draw on a cigarette, you know, and the slow exhale over the sexy eyes, right, and it became associated with sexiness and masculinity and all of these things and all of those images really were super powerful, right. And so, yeah, i mean, i think definitely, you know, you can kind of habituate people to certain kinds of behaviors by seeing it over and over. Personally, i think we can aspire to something better, right, the thing that I said to the Brady folks when I was visiting with them is like I think what you want is for people to go to a gun show and be like, hey, go to the gun safe booth and say, hey, do you have that cool gun safe that John Wick had in the movie?

Speaker 1: 13:24

right, I've had people on this podcast be like I cannot wait to have like my own John Wick, like walk-in safe. Yeah, yeah, Like they want it. that's the thing, yeah.

Speaker 2: 13:33

And so like that's. So you've got the walk-in safe, you've got the cool biometric lock, you know those kinds of things, because there's a certain I mean, until we sort of grapple honestly with the kind of macho fun of it, right, like that's a lot of, is that right? And I should say the macho fun of gun culture, right. And there's no reason that gun safes can't be part of that, right, a cool trigger lock can be part of that, right. And so I mean, another thing that we were talking about was, I think you know what's an objection to gun safes? Well, if there's an intruder, i won't be able to get the gun safe out in time. I won't be able to get the gun out of the safe in time, right?

Speaker 2: 14:22

So one of the things that I set as a goal over the season of True Lies was there's an intruder and he gets the gun out of the gun safe in time, right, oh, okay, well, why? Because he's a badass, because he's fast, he's awesome, like, if you can't get your gun out of your gun safe in time, there's something wrong with you, right, like you're not doing it, right, like you that's the kind of thing we want to model.

Speaker 1: 14:44

I appreciate it because your characters that are engaging with these firearms it's never like a novice firearms right Like these are all people who definitely they know their guns their good shots.

Speaker 1: 14:55

They know their ammo like they would know kind of inside and out what's good, what's not. You know, they're not kind of just wandering in picking something off the shelf, right. So then to show them using it, and using it effectively, i think then ties it to. This is what cool people use, like this, yeah, like this is if you want to be part of this culture.

Speaker 2: 15:13

This is an addendum to it And I think you know fetishizing expertise and knowledge and skill, like that's a real thing, right? I mean, i think, as was the case with cigarettes, what we were just talking about, like the, i think every time we portray on television some betterexternal victory, you cannot take it off the shelf, you can't get it out the photo yourself. Some idiot who doesn't know how to use a gun bumbling with a gun and looking stupid an angel gets its wings. Do you know what I mean? Like that's a really important thing And because that's again something to aspire to, you can watch and be like. I wanna be like that person.

Speaker 1: 16:02

I don't wanna be the guy who just puts it my gun in my back pocket and it falls out while I'm like like walking my kid to school, right, I wanna be the guy who has it appropriately holstered, who's licensed or who has it in a gun lock inside my car Right, Because I've got a cool gun like gun safe built into my car that I've gotten put together.

Speaker 2: 16:19

Yeah, exactly, and that's, i mean, one of the things that I mean.

Speaker 2: 16:24

actually, on Burned Out is one of the things that we had a chance to talk about.

Speaker 2: 16:26

I don't know that we ever did this specifically, but it's definitely the kind of thing that we did is just have the main character walk in to a house and be like every idiot leaves a gun in a drawer. You know what I mean. And here's the hiding place that everybody knows about, right, and just go get and suddenly, like all across America, people are like oh wait, a second, am I that idiot? They put the gun in an easily accessible drawer where someone could really easily steal it, right, and that's an important message to get out there. I think you know more important or probably more effective at changing behavior than all sorts of, you know, kind of very negative or you know like kind of on their face, emotionally impactful things, like okay. so again, i would say seeing the scene where a kid comes in and finds the gun in the drawer and is playing with the gun and is, you know like it's horrible, it's the equivalent of the black lungs for smoking, right, it's just people just shut down.

Speaker 1: 17:41

People assume it won't be my kid it won't be, or they just it can't handle it. It's just too much, it's too close Yeah too close.

Speaker 2: 17:47

But oh, cool people never keep their guns in drawers. That's a.

Speaker 1: 17:52

And it's snarky, so it's a joke. It doesn't feel like it's directly targeted at them, but I should modify this And it also I think probably then signals that you're credible or the show is a credible messenger.

Speaker 1: 18:03

Because I think about all of the like the first responders of law enforcement or military that we've had on the podcast or that I know that are like you know, if we're looking, if they're going into a house and they look for like it's gonna be in the glove box, it's gonna be right next to the couch under the thing It's gonna be, and they know that those are like the three spots that they're most likely to be. So when a show then points that out, folks that are engaged in that go yeah seems right yeah, seems fair.

Speaker 1: 18:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they know what they're talking about. They didn't. This isn't a writer's room And you know, in West LA that was like ah, let's Google what people do with guns Like this is related to that.

Speaker 2: 18:37

And it's fine. Yeah, it's funny. Actually, I realized just how closely people were paying attention. It was in the first year of burn notice where we had to shoot a scene where someone is looking out a window and they identify a Mossad agent because he has a Desert Eagle right, Which is the, you know, was the I'm not sure if it still is, but it was then the sidearm of the Mossad And then we actually had to shoot the scene. We didn't shoot the person at the window and the POV where you saw the person with the gun. We didn't shoot them at the same time. And then when we had to shoot the guy with the gun, he was walking across the street and a Desert Eagle is so big.

Speaker 2: 19:28

It's like a cannon right And the poor actor was like I can't walk with this, it's so huge right, you have that Clint Eastwood walk by default, cause it just yeah, yeah, desert. Eagle should be carried by, like the rock can carry a Desert. Eagle like not just a regular skinny actor.

Speaker 1: 19:47

And it would still look big in his hand, like it's a large.

Speaker 2: 19:50

So we gave him a baby Eagle, which is the smaller version of a Desert Eagle, and the mail we got for identifying a baby Eagle as a Desert Eagle it was like I was like wow, people really care. But it did tell me like yeah, people are really watching this and they're paying attention to the firearms and like we need to. You know, keep it tight and pay attention And you know, thinking about a campaign like this, it speaks to yeah no, we you can have an influence. It makes a difference.

Speaker 1: 20:22

And I mean I know that you talked about like so you're already putting the set design together. So you call and say we're just gonna add we want gun safes. But it doesn't seem like that was a huge in the grand scheme of things. Essentially like essentially in a production like that, that's a huge expenditure or huge time sinker that it's gonna fundamentally kind of change what a character is by just adding in. You know that they lock their gun up when they go at home.

Speaker 2: 20:44

No, i mean honestly, like I can't. It was to be honest. I was like the Brady folks were super happy And I was like, wow, it was like the easiest thing in the world. I didn't have to build the gun safe. I literally just was like put it in gun safe. Yeah, i mean honestly, it's like guns on television don't materialize out of thin air. They have to be in places and they have to be picked up from those places, and so they might as well be picked up from gun safes, like why not?

Speaker 1: 21:17

right Instead of a side table. and just Yeah instead of a side table, exactly.

Speaker 2: 21:21

So we actually do have a side table gun safe which has a biometric secret drawer that has to be accessed, you know, but you can't just open the drawer And so so, yeah, that's you know for us, because it's true lies and it's sort of a heightened universe and stuff. It was just kind of fun to be like, okay, so they've got this cool one and this cool one, and there were actually a couple that we built that that we didn't end up photographing. So hopefully we get another season and we can show them. So we'll see.

Speaker 1: 21:56

And I think, too, what that then goes is that it shows to folks out in the wider audience as well that, like there are all sorts of different safe storage options too that you might not necessarily think of. I think a lot of people picture like an old timey loony tunes safe and that that's it and that is expensive And that's the end, when really there's everything from trigger locks that are very inexpensive to biometric safes that aren't that expensive. to like, you can go very high tech. I want your side table. I feel like that just sounds fun.

Speaker 1: 22:22

Like that would just be cool to have. I don't own a firearm personally at the moment, but I'm like that would be kind of fun just to have in the house Have a little secret pouch.

Speaker 2: 22:29

Absolutely, absolutely. Why not? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 22:31

And you know and too like would that make people wanna build new, cooler ones as well, like different storage options? I think that would be amazing.

Speaker 2: 22:39

Yeah, and it's funny I didn't think about telling the story, but it's true. When I was a kid, my uncle who I'm my middle name I was named after him, and my sister's named after his, my aunt, his wife, as is my daughter actually, So they were a very important part of our family and it was my great uncle And I got a BB gun for Christmas And I spent pretty much my entire grade school years like running around in the desert shooting things with my BB gun.

Speaker 2: 23:20

It was like a big deal to me. But when I got the gun he sat me down and basically would not let me get up until I understood you never point a gun at anything or anyone unless you're intending to use it. And we went over in great detail the importance of gun safety with a BB gun and everything. And it was very impactful to me And I had a lot of respect for him and I took it very seriously. And You know I never pointed it at anybody, right, all of which sort of. I saw it in a different light after my uncle shot himself, but yeah, and I was like oh, wow, that's. I mean he meant it when he said like don't point it unless you're planning on using it. But I was like, wow, that's a case of like I didn't even know that he had a fire.

Speaker 2: 24:26

You know, I knew that he'd struggled with depression. But yeah, i mean, it was a thing that really hit home for me where I was like, wow, that's, i wish I'd known and I'd been able to sit down with him, you know, and have that conversation. But yeah, so I guess I had a very impactful experience with gun safety through him. That got even more impactful through his later actions.

Speaker 1: 24:48

Well, i mean one thank you for like sharing and disclosing, because I know like it's never easy to just like talk about it and then like you've got to live in that brain space Again, like it all comes back up. So thank you for sharing that and like for being engaged in this work now too.

Speaker 2: 25:05

I mean, i also think about as much as I was cautious I was also a kid with a BB gun and, you know, did the odd dumb thing And when I think about that, also the consequences of doing a dumb thing with a BB gun typically going to be painful but not life changing, yeah Right, and that's the really sad thing is like we're making mistakes, so consequential you know, and then with suicide it's like, ah man, that bad day. Man, that was really easy to.

Speaker 1: 25:44

And you can't, yeah, you can't.

Speaker 2: 25:45

Then no take backs Yeah.

Speaker 1: 25:47

And then it's the ripple effect too, of that violence on everybody else around you that that keeps going, which is certainly, i think, not what folks are intending.

Speaker 3: 25:55

No.

Speaker 1: 25:55

And that moment at all. It just that's the reality of them being gone from the world. Right, and is that it hurts? It hurts the folks who are behind in dealing with it.

Speaker 2: 26:04

Going back to the campaign, i think that, to the extent that I mean, when you think about, okay, what's going to be effective, yeah, like, what's actually going to change behavior, again, i think to the extent that you portray gun ownership as a discipline, it involves some work, it involves some expertise and some study and some discipline and some action and all of those things.

Speaker 2: 26:42

And responsibility, and responsibility and maturity and all of those things. And so it's kind of like what I would hope is that I think that for anybody that really wants to be a gun owner, there's nothing negative about that. I mean, it's sort of like okay, so you're an expert and you're disciplined and you're paying attention to these things and stuff like that. But I think that it can also have this other effect of people like, ideally, people who are just casual about it or not really thinking about it, could kind of look at the world of gun owners as portrayed on television or on in movies and go. You know that looks like too much work, right, i'm not really that kind of person And sort of keeping guns, making guns not feel like the sort of thing that people like you do if that makes sense.

Speaker 1: 27:38

Yeah, it's that if there's a heavy responsibility along with owning this thing or living kind of in this culture or doing this thing, that there are steps that go along with it, then it's not something to be entered into casually, like you don't just go on a Friday, buy one, come home, bam, you're done and that's the end all. And it's also, i think, important because it's not talking down to gun owners, as you pointed out, because the gun owners, they're experts. They're, i think, if I remember correctly, multiple characters. They speak multiple languages. They just know an incredible amount of stuff beyond just the gun stuff too, right? So it's that these are folks who are very elite and very special and like, if you wanna be part of that as well you can, but you also have to be responsible, do all the stuff.

Speaker 1: 28:22

Yeah, you gotta do all the side piece and the side work that goes with it.

Speaker 2: 28:25

Yeah, i remember when I was a kid I saw I'd never seen the movie Deliverance.

Speaker 1: 28:28

Yes.

Speaker 2: 28:29

Yeah, like I saw Deliverance and I was like, oh my God, that is like it was such a macho fantasy for me. and I was like mom, dad, i wanna take bow lessons, i wanna learn how to you know. and they were like sure, and so they, you know, signed me up and I think I did two and I was like this is so hard.

Speaker 1: 28:48

There's math involved. Yeah, my fingers hurt And my fingers hurt and oh my gosh.

Speaker 2: 28:52

okay, and I think that, like that would be a really good model.

Speaker 1: 28:59

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 29:00

Right, like if we could achieve that for American gun ownership, that'd just be more like owning a bow and arrow. Like, oh yeah, it's something if you're committed to it, if it's something that you really wanna do, if you're gonna like put in the time and put in the effort and like really learn to do this thing, great, knock yourself out.

Speaker 2: 29:18

But like you, don't keep a bow and arrow in your like in your purse, just in case you know you don't keep it in your glove compartment And then, like there are very few bow and arrow road rage incidents in the United States, because it's just a pain in the ass. do you know what I mean? It's a lot to learn.

Speaker 1: 29:39

And there's a skill in the shooting of it. Yeah, i never thought of it from the bow and arrow angle, but I always think of it as kind of like the equivalent of like it's like dog ownership. Like if you own a really big dog, like if you own a German Chepard or King Corso. Like you can't take your dog anywhere but you gotta make sure you've trained it well, you know what you're doing. It's expensive, there's upkeep. You should probably take some classes before you get it. Should you own one if you live in a like in a studio apartment in DC? Probably not. It's not great, yeah, but I think actually that kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 30:07

But when you think about that, i think that there's there are kind of two sides to that right, because I think that a lot of people can hear that kind of message as this sort of like permission.

Speaker 1: 30:20

Oh yeah, that you need. I can see that.

Speaker 2: 30:22

You can only have this if you jump through these hoops that. I say you need to jump through right, and I think people's instinctive response to that is screw you, i don't want to jump through your hoops.

Speaker 1: 30:33

And who are you to tell me what hoops there are? Yeah, who declared you queen of German Shepherd? Yeah, literally I can?

Speaker 2: 30:37

I'm just going to go buy a German Shepherd.

Speaker 1: 30:39

I'll do what I want with my German Shepherd.

Speaker 2: 30:41

This is the United States of America. I'm sure there's some German Shepherd amendment in the Constitution. I haven't read it recently, But the, but I think that to the extent that that message can be flipped on its head right And the sort of positive attributes of responsible German Shepherd ownership can be showcased Like, oh yeah, like you wouldn't want to be a German Shepherd owner without knowing all the German Shepherd things.

Speaker 2: 31:11

There's a certain kind of person who is a German Shepherd owner, who approaches it a certain kind of way, And you know that is something to be aspired to. Like you should, but like you don't just buy a German Shepherd. What are you crazy?

Speaker 1: 31:25

That's, it's going to be folks within that community, then can self police to like why are you coming to the dog park if you don't follow all these rules and do all these things? We've just messed up the SEO on this episode, so terribly all these dog lovers are going to be like. I was promised Westminster dog show on Google and I got gun violence instead.

Speaker 2: 31:44

Well, I did Turner and Hooch that that had firearms and dogs. So there you go.

Speaker 1: 31:48

Full seven degrees of separation.

Speaker 2: 31:50

I will say that was actually quite a learning experience, which was like dogs really have to be trained to be okay with being around firearms. We had a lot of very quiet guns on that show because the dogs did not like the guns And they smell.

Speaker 1: 32:03

Dogs, not fans, Not a fan of it And not a fan of gun violence in general. I would say Dogs are. They're a peaceful, loving creature.

Speaker 2: 32:12

They're peaceful, I mean they can be trained in other directions, although, oddly, the dogs that we had on that show could not be trained. They were just like they did whatever they wanted. They were yeah. So.

Speaker 1: 32:23

Well, I'm sorry for possibly the negative turn Hooch flashback that I just caused In the time that we have left.

Speaker 1: 32:29

I'm just curious where do you think ultimately this is going to go though? Like, do you see this initiative even in your own work or kind of more broadly in media? Do you think you're going to see more and more folks showing kind of, or modeling, responsible gun ownership Or, as you pointed out, like maybe modeling irresponsible gun ownership but as a negative character, flaw right, like that's what this character that you clearly don't want to emulate is doing?

Speaker 2: 32:52

Yeah, i mean, i think my hope is that I really feel like the potential of this campaign is that a thousand flowers can bloom and that, and what I would hope is that, moving forward, people can really embrace the idea that it doesn't look the same on every show, right? But I think that there is definitely a narrative out there And this could sound self-serving, but I think it's true. I think there's a narrative out there that, like, there's a certain kind of message about gun safety that is the right kind of message and a certain kind of scene. That is the right kind of scene. And it's a kind of scene that appeals very much to sort of coastal sensibilities and it appeals to non-gun owners and that kind of thing. And I think that people see that for what it is. It's people not like me preaching to me about how I should live my life And this is just not a good time for that in the United States. It doesn't work right.

Speaker 2: 34:06

It's the smolty music plays, and then they're like I'm being pandered or lectured, i'm being lectured, i'm being lectured too exactly, and that, i think, is because, honestly, when I sat down with Brady, i was like they're going to not like what I have to say.

Speaker 1: 34:25

You get a brochure.

Speaker 2: 34:26

I'll get a brochure and they're just going to be like no, because I was basically like I know what they're going to want, right, they're going to want me to do a scene that I can never do on True Lies. It's an action comedy, right, for that matter. On True Lies, famously, I think Arnold Schwarzenegger in the movie killed like 90 people in the first scene.

Speaker 1: 34:49

He's hanging from a helicopter. It doesn't translate as well with-. It's not a gun safety movie right.

Speaker 2: 34:56

And the show itself exists in this heightened action universe, right. But realizing that there was a way that we could participate in that was really important. And one of the things that I said in that initial meeting was here's a scene that I think you really want out there And it's a hard scene to pitch right And it's not going to fit in with the sensibilities of, kind of the traditional gun safety Brady campaign like that kind of thing. It's not going to fit in with those sensibilities. But I think it would make a real difference, which is if you took a show an anti-hero show, right. If you took a show a Breaking Bad or a Sons of Anarchy or something like that, right And you had a bad guy discover that another bad guy had stored a gun where a kid could get it, and then you have the responsible bad guy kick the living shit out of the irresponsible bad guy and say, basically no man ever stores a gun where a kid could find it.

Speaker 2: 36:17

And if you ever do that again, you won't just be swallowing your teeth, you're dead.

Speaker 1: 36:22

Breaking Bad did that with like opioid access?

Speaker 2: 36:23

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1: 36:24

You can make and use all the meth you want, but you don't put it where a child can use it And it's a pivotal moment for a character's development of like, oh like. It gets the audience on his side because there's honor in this person, Exactly, and it's a macho approach And it's not preachy.

Speaker 2: 36:43

I think it's accurate right. But you know and I was saying like I can't defend that I'm not necessarily pro bad guys making other bad guys swallow their teeth, but I do think that that's a message and an approach that kind of meets people where they live. you know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 37:06

That that's like okay, well, And it's very believable because it's it seems, like an organic sort of moment, right, it's not again, it's not that the soft lens comes on, the music plays and we've got our teachable moment. At the end It would fit within the universe, so it makes sense.

Speaker 2: 37:23

And I guess to answer your overall question when I say a thousand flowers bloom, yeah there's room on a medical show for the kid getting rushed into the emergency room. He played with a gun and now we got to save him right.

Speaker 2: 37:36

Okay and that's tragic, and we got to talk to mom and dad and they feel terrible and but okay, so that's one kind of story. And then, but there's a whole different kind of story for the shows about bad guys, and there's a whole different kind of story for the shows about cops, and there's a whole different kind of story for the shows about spies And ifían. If these messages can find their way into, organically, find their way into each of those shows because, like, in a way that works for each of those shows, because, like you know, watch true lies, there's a lot of gunplay, you know what I mean. Like it's a lot of like people running around with machine guns. We are not like portraying the actual effects of machine guns on other human beings, right, which is, and that's kind of what the franchise is about. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 38:23

It's a cartoon. On a certain level It's a. Again, it's not a cartoon but it's a heightened universe, right. But there is room in a show like that for showing gun safety in the home And I think that that can make a difference. So my hope would be that a campaign like this can really encourage a diversity of approaches that aren't preachy and that can meet people where they are.

Speaker 1: 38:54

And to go back to your the 24 example, like because we know media gets everywhere like can inspire conversation, like somebody can mention at the dinner table, maybe without it feeling like, ah, this is a political you know. I think now, if you cite the news source that you come from, people can almost they'll say, well, that's a red news source, that's a blue news or whatever. But you know, hey, on TV last night, the show that we all enjoy, i thought it was cool that this thing happened. I liked their safe, i liked their message, i thought it was funny that you know so-and-so got his gun stolen out of his truck and had you know the repercussions of that. It opens up that conversation in a much lower stakes way, which I think is really important too.

Speaker 2: 39:34

Absolutely, absolutely yeah.

Speaker 1: 39:35

Well, and speaking of stories, where can people find you and your stories?

Speaker 2: 39:39

Well, you can see true lies on CBS on Wednesdays at 10 or Wednesdays at nine. If you're watching the upcoming finale And other shows, you can see. Most of my past shows are on Hulu. So yeah, burnose is on Hulu and Amazon Prime and The Gifted is on Hulu And Turner and Hooch on Disney Plus. I could go on and on.

Speaker 1: 40:10

Well, and I could go on and on with you too, so this was wonderful. Thank you so much, matt. Hey wanna share with the podcast. Listeners can now get in touch with us here at Red Blue and Brady via phone or text message. Simply call or text us at 480-744-3452 with your thoughts, questions concerns ideas, cat pictures, whatever.

Speaker 3: 40:32

Thanks for listening. As always, brady's lifesaving work in Congress, the courts and communities across the country is made possible thanks to you. For more information on Brady or how to get involved in the fight against gun violence, please like and subscribe to the podcast. Get in touch with us at BradyUnitedorg or on social at BradyBuzz. Be brave and remember. take action, not size, whether or not fear is, integrate or forget.