226: Behind the Scenes: Prop Masters, Armorers, and Gun Safety in Hollywood

Ever wondered about the behind-the-scenes world of prop masters and armorers in Hollywood? Join us as we chat with Dutch Merrick, founder of Prop Gun Safety and a veteran propmaster with 25 years of experience. As the man maintaining the guns on set, Dutch occupies a unique position within film — setting up actors to look their best, while also keeping them safe. As we kick off the beginning of our podcast series on how Hollywood can fight back about gun violence, Dutch shares his insights on the differences between on-set firearm safety and firearms in the "real world," how the tragedy on the Rust set sent shockwaves throughout the film industry, and the role that folks behind the camera can have in changing unsafe or irresponsible gun culture and behavior.

Further reading:
Hollywood Armorer Reacts to ‘Rust’ Manslaughter Charges: ‘There Is So Much Fault to Go Around (Variety)
How the entertainment industry changed after the fatal 'Rust' shooting (CBS)
Top Showrunners and Producers Make Gun Safety Pledge in Wake of Uvalde, Buffalo Mass Shootings (Variety)
USC’s Norman Lear Center Report Urges Hollywood To Re-Examine Gun Violence In Films & TV Shows (Deadline) 

Transcript

JJ Janflone: 0:08

This is the legal disclaimer, where I tell you that the views, thoughts and opinions shared on this podcast belong solely to our guests and hosts, and not necessarily Brady or Brady's affiliates. Please note this podcast contains discussions of violence that some people may find disturbing. It's okay, we find it disturbing too. Hey everybody, welcome back to Red Bloom Brady. I'm one of your hosts, jj.

Kelly Sampson: 0:47

And I'm your other host, Kelly.

JJ Janflone: 0:48

And today we're bringing you an episode that kicks off a wider series. For the next few months, we're going to be rolling out a whole bunch of new episodes, including ones with bonus content that you can find on our YouTube channel all devoted to a new initiative from Brady called Show Your Safety. Now, show Your Safety is all about how creatives in Hollywood and beyond can use their storytelling powers to better depict things like, say, firearm storage. And in order to do that and have these conversations, kelly and I have been blessed to sit down with writers, producers, actresses, actors the whole gamut and it's been really exciting. But before we could do any of that work, i think we really needed as I think you might, listeners a crash course in firearms, hollywood filmmaking, the whole nine yards right.

Kelly Sampson: 1:36

So that's why today we have a prop master and armorer to help us understand what is a prop master? What is an armorer? How do you film safely, to make sure that the cast and crew and everyone on set are able to bring a story to life without any safety concerns?

JJ Janflone: 1:54

And so that's why Dutch Merrick, founder of Prop Gun Safety, is sitting down with us today, walking us through it all, and so, without further ado, let's meet Dutch.

Dutch Merrick : 2:06

Hi, my name is Dutch Merrick. I have been a prop master in film and television for 26 years now. I have been a prop master in film and television for 26 years now. I remember January 6, 1996, i had a 6 am call time. That'll stay with me the rest of my life. I think I also work quite a bit as an armorer or gun wrangler and was past president of my local union, iatse, local 44, which is the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees, iatse. So we're nationwide, us and Canada. Local 44 is a local just of what we call property crafts people. So we're prop masters, set decorators, set dressers, prop makers, which are essentially carpenters, special effects, greens, flooring, drapery. so we build the sets, we blow up the sets, we change the weather, the entire environment that an actor works in we're responsible for so you can, just you make the world, we make that world.

Dutch Merrick : 3:06

Yeah, when you see an actor walk into a space on television or film. That is a world that we created, down to the small items that You know wristwatch or a coffee cup.

JJ Janflone: 3:16

Really, that's actually. It sounds like an amazingly cool job.

Dutch Merrick : 3:19

It's. You know, it's the most diverse job I can ever imagine, because any day of the week I can be in any environment. We might be on a snowy mountaintop or a sunny beach, possibly in the same week, and anything that a writer or a director Imagines, anything they think up we have to come up with and that's our job. We go, we'll fabricate it, rent it, buy it, whatever it takes to make that fulfill that request, and some pretty oddball stuff comes Our way to oh, I'm sure yeah, which, which I should define.

Dutch Merrick : 3:48

What a prop is.

JJ Janflone: 3:49

Yeah, i was gonna say, could you just find a prop?

Dutch Merrick : 3:50

and then also kind of the difference, i think, between like a prop, master, an armorer a prop is essentially any act, any Item that an actor interacts with or something that drives the script forward. So an actor may say, and it's not scripted. They may say, hey, my character needs a great watch from that period, or a A mentor, a wedding ring that says something about their character. It can be a subtle nuance or it can be something as Significant as an object that plays a character in the show, like the Lord of the Rings, it's a title character of the entire billion dollar franchise is the ring It's gonna be a good ring.

Dutch Merrick : 4:32

Yeah without it saying a word. It is a character that drives an entire billion dollar franchise. Another great example of a real hero prop what we call hero is a featured prop Would be from castaway, where Tom Hanks won an Academy Award acting against a prop which you'll remember as Wilson the volleyball. And Wilson didn't get the Academy Award, nor did the problem master or a set painter that came up with Wilson. But that is our lot. We remain behind the scenes. You know well the, the, the actors get the glory, we eat the beans.

JJ Janflone: 5:12

So let's say that the hero prop that is like, literally like a check-offs gun, right?

Kelly Sampson: 5:16

Like it's that firearm that's present.

JJ Janflone: 5:18

Is that fall under the auspices of the prop master? Is that the armor? Is that the so a?

Dutch Merrick : 5:24

Prop master is a department head. We run the entire prop department and our contract says that every filming unit has to have one prop master Signed to every shooting unit.

Dutch Merrick : 5:33

So if there's a, camera, there's a prop master. There may not be a set dresser or a prop assistant, but there has to be a prop master. Anything in the prop world a prop master is qualified to handle, to deal with, work with, and a gun wrangler may be brought in Specifically just to handle guns. So you've got a scene with a TV show that occasionally has a revolver that shows up. There's no reason that the prop master can't handle that perfectly well while they're managing, you know, a set full of props with the Whole crew. Once you get into something more specific a lot of guns working You'll bring in a gun wrangler means a person just focused on handling the guns They're not worried about moving the director's chairs around or or other small props, just focusing on the guns.

Dutch Merrick : 6:14

And that's the basic level of someone just handles guns safely. Then we have an armorer. An armorer is another level of professional. An armorer is somebody that has a skill set perhaps to make minor Modifications, adjustments, that knows the guns really inside and out and can manage a great number of guns, for example. And then there's also another term that you rarely will hear master armor. A master armor, somebody literally can machine guns from parts. They can, they can manufacture things and and from the ground up. So there's maybe a dozen master armors that I know of in the business And there's probably 150 or so armorers and then maybe a couple hundred that are just sort of gun wranglers. But within my union, local, local 44 Hollywood property craftspersons. Out of our 7,000 members in Hollywood There are 500 prop masters and maybe 150, 200 of those are armors and 2,000 property people.

Kelly Sampson: 7:11

To kind of put it into context, the differences between maybe a prop master, a gun wrangler, an armor and a master armor Is it would a film. If you're doing like a war epic or something, something with a lot of firearms, is that where you might need a master armor. And then if you're doing maybe there's like one gun in a movie, that's where you might you might not even need to bring in A specialist.

Dutch Merrick : 7:33

Yeah, prop master can handle a simple Oh, the guy runs in with a shotgun and fires a couple rounds. That's really not a big deal and very much in our purview is what we do. My good friend, mike Papic, is one of the lead, one of the best master armors in the business. I work with him quite a bit over the last 25 years. He did things like flags of our fathers and he did a lot of big.

Dutch Merrick : 7:53

I was thinking like the Andor Brothers would probably be something where you absolutely need probably somebody with that like historical knowledge And also it can be like I can recreate well, we spent the last six seasons working on a TV show called seal team, which is was CBS and now it's moved to Paramount Plus, and seal team is a testosterone driven gun fuel. Shoot them up, you know, it's just action sequence. So we often will have six, seven or eight Armors on the show on a day to run these 20 bad guys on the hills with AK 47s and those You know military forces there with their M16s, and then our hero guys with their you know The HK's, and, and each, each of us is running a unit of several stuntmen or actors with gunfire happening. And this can be one scene where maybe there's a helicopter coming over with machine gunfire And an automatic weapons all over the place and we might have a hundred people all firing at one time on camera.

Dutch Merrick : 8:47

Yeah and then there's shows where it's just a revolver sitting on the front seat of a car.

Kelly Sampson: 8:51

Mm-hmm. This is so fascinating because I feel like so often as a layman Yeah, you hear a lot about CGI and it's kind of remarkable. It's like no, there's. There's real things happening, and you know, you're in DC right now with Brady, and so I'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit about what brought you here And why you became interested in working around gun violence prevention.

Dutch Merrick : 9:14

Well it's. It's an interesting story. When The infamous rust tragedy happened you remember October 21st 2021 it shook our industry. I mean, it's almost hard to talk about it without breaking up a little bit. To be quite honest, when I Heard what had happened that first day, i was just I went white, i was in shock and I called other armor friends and they were.

Dutch Merrick : 9:39

Everyone was just sort of shaken to the core and no one could figure out immediately how on earth Would a person die from a blank prop gun, because we work with these things day in and day out. I mean more than a hundred years We've safely used blank guns in entertainment and film and and nobody dies. You know that we have an impeccable safety record. When you look at it statistically, in fact, when you think about any part of the world where you will encounter a firearm and that could be a shooting range, someone's home, a gun store We are the very safest place where you'll encounter a gun because of the way we manage them and the way we handle them, and there's no live ammunition ever on a stout studio.

JJ Janflone: 10:19

Just can I ask a clarifying question first too, for our listeners. So, but we're talking about like, a like, even though we're called, we're say We're calling it a prop gun, because the prop is the term right, but it's an actual fire.

Dutch Merrick : 10:29

Right.

JJ Janflone: 10:29

It's, it's not a fake.

Dutch Merrick : 10:31

Well, so here, think about this, and Can I use a over-the-counter firearm that right out of a gun store as a prop in a show?

Dutch Merrick : 10:42

Yeah, yeah, I can sure can I use something that's a replica that functions in much the same way But it doesn't fire? can I use that as a prop in a show? Are you sure, why not? could I use a good-looking rubber replica? or a squirt gun that looks just like a gun? Can I use that as a prop? and making a production or a theater play? sure, why not? all those things are props.

JJ Janflone: 11:01

Okay, yeah so and and so then there, i'm guessing there are different rules. Then, as I'm sure you're gonna go into like, one of the reasons I'm guessing that the sets were are known for being so safe Is that there's really strident rules on what type of gun you're using, what, if it falls into what category. We we act around it.

Dutch Merrick : 11:16

I strive, and I think most of my peers strive, to treat everything that looks like a gun the same way. So when rust happened, i started talking to my fellow armors and we're trying to dissect from the police reports and news reports Like, how is it possible knowing what we know about our craft and how we handle our job? how is it possible that this mistake might happen? and One of the things that we all agreed upon is that there's not really an across-the-board training, a Thurow hands-on training. There's not really a mentorship program or a apprenticeship programs. We've all been either self-taught or worked under one of the greats you know, and they kind of hand the baton on.

Dutch Merrick : 11:52

So When I gathered the other armors together, a lot of us, we just we had conversation after conversation about what needs to be done and it came. We came to the agreement Hey, there's got to be a training, there's got to be some certification, some level, some bar to raise. So we set out about to make a course and I have created a course called prop gun set safety And we do an eight-hour hands-on workshop and I made sure that it's available to both union and non-union members. I So anyone that wants to take my class that works in the film industry or is a film student and we have scholarships now for people that are film students to help get them through the program. So they get hands-on knowledge of basic gun safety, prop gun safety, which is what we do behind the scenes. Very different animal than you would find at a shooting range.

Dutch Merrick : 12:38

And then we do scene studies where we set up a film camera and we act out scenes and do blank fire on camera, just like you would in a film.

JJ Janflone: 12:46

And then the last portion of the class, we break down the sort of outlying film fatalities which include Rust and Brandon Lee for example, i was gonna say I feel like I'm kind of dating myself, but I think maybe it goes to your point that like how safe of an industry was, because I think we can think of the two.

JJ Janflone: 13:02

but like I think, of Brandon Lee, all the time The two stand out, yeah as opposed to kind of other gun violence in the US, where there's almost too many to mention. So that's such a specific workplace instance.

Dutch Merrick : 13:13

Well, another thing we did as the armorers we quantified. I called all the prop houses, the places that rent prop guns and things, and we figured out that each year, the entertainment industry burns through tens of millions of blank rounds. Wow, Every year we figure at least 10 million rounds a year, and the show that I work on, seal Team, in the last six seasons has gone through 1.5 million blank rounds. That's 1.5 million opportunities and no failures, and so that demonstrates that Rust is truly an outlier. Now the ramifications of Rust are bigger to us in many ways. First and foremost, it shows that when guns are used on a show, it's dangerous, which is not the case. I can't emphasize that anymore. The way we do things with the rules and the way we handle them, the way we carefully choreograph scenes, we make sure everyone's aware of what's gonna happen everyone's in a safe position.

Dutch Merrick : 14:05

We can use Lexan and polycarbonate sheets to as barriers, some things for safety. Whatever we need to do to make sure it's safe, we can recreate anything. We can have someone fire gun directly at the camera under the proper circumstances. So what happened with Rust is that it portrayed our job in a light that was inaccurate and unfortunately that is sticking to the people that do this professionally People oh, armor, your job sounds very dangerous. Well, no, it's not.

Dutch Merrick : 14:32

And so the backlash on that has been producers saying all right, we're getting ready to do our film and so we're gonna go with airsoft replicas. These are these gas charged, they shoot plastic pellets and they look very much like the real gun. So we're just gonna go with those for the film and then in post production we'll have them put in the muzzle blast, we'll have them put in the brass casings flying out of the gun and we'll fix it in post. And I would ask the producer why do you want to go with airsoft when we have the real guns right here and you can get the authenticity for the actors, the realism, help them immerse themselves in the role, and it does affect an actor's performance to have a real gun firing in their hand or to have someone firing a real gun in their direction. It makes a big difference, even though they know it's a blank. it's a big difference. then, a plastic toy? Now, now make it look like it fires. Now you know, give it some recoil and say pew, a lot, pew, pew.

JJ Janflone: 15:21

And I'm guessing is less expensive than having to CGI, and CGI is enormously expensive.

Dutch Merrick : 15:26

So I asked our editor on SEAL Team he's a buddy of mine. I said hey, how much does it cost to put in gunfire? after the fact He goes, i don't know. I've never broken it down. I said would you do me a favor, can you do a cost analysis and see what it costs to do like a muzzle flash? So he broke it down. One muzzle flash from one gun, just the muzzle flash, not the brass flying is $1,100. A blank round cost a buck and a quarter. You can pay for me all day And all the blanks I could carry for $1,100. And I can arm up a whole army of guys.

Dutch Merrick : 15:59

Now, beyond that, beyond the expense, visual effects has not been organized by the union. So visual effects, while the editors are union and the sound people and the prop people and all the other people are union, visual effects gets outsourced overseas. And let me tell you what my understanding is that these are sweatshop conditions. These are sent off to Indonesia, malaysia, southeast Asia, where people are not protected by union protections. And when you watch one of these blockbuster films a lot of CGI and you watch the credits, there will be hundreds of names coming on. Visual effects, mass screens of names because it's a ton of labor. So they have these cheap labor and really bad conditions putting in gunfire in something that we armorers and prop people and most all the crew understand is perfectly safe In the.

Dutch Merrick : 16:44

You know it's funny after Rust, every armchair quarterback gun instructor, former cop, marine drill instructor chimed in on. I know what happened and who's at fault, and you guys don't know what you're doing. Our side of the gun world is entirely different than a shooting range. It's not, you know, the police academy. Our safety rules are a little different for a reason because in the real world you never point a gun at a human being or something you don't wish to destroy is the term a lot of them use. Well, how many times have you seen a movie where the guns pointed right at the camera? like that's a thing that we actually do. We do point the gun at the camera and occasionally at people, but it's choreographed in such a way That maybe we're cheating the gun and it's not quite pointed at the person, or if it is pointed at the camera, it's not firing, or if it is firing, we've got special material up, you know a polycarbonate, like, as I said, lexan, between the camera and the gun.

Dutch Merrick : 17:36

So we can do gunfire at a camera and we do not intend to destroy it ever further. We don't call, i don't call, and I teach my participants, my class, not to call a prop gun a weapon, because we don't intend for anyone to get harm with this thing. This is a tool of the trade that we use in our job, like a screwdriver or a flashlight or anything else. Everyone's gonna go home safe today, and as I tell the guys I say, who here carries a pocket knife, and everyone in the class we usually go, i do, and I so great, what do you use that for? and they say, well, i open boxes, i cut some zip ties, i did this, i did that, i altered my pants, whatever they're doing with their Nice. I said, okay, well then, is it a weapon? will know.

Dutch Merrick : 18:15

But can it be used as a weapon? well, sure, well then, when you walk on a film set, do you make a public announcement that here I am walking with a weapon? everyone watch out, will know. It's just tool. So these prop guns Are exactly that. They're a tool of our job and they're part of our ordinary, everyday job and that's how we treat them. Yes, reverence and yes, safety and diligence, but not Undo panic that, oh my god, there's a gun on set. That's the difference in madman and a professional.

Kelly Sampson: 18:44

Yeah, i think something that I find fascinating this conversation is Because there's so many procedures and rules and And routines in order to keep prop guns safe. We do have these sort of two outliers, and I think that just goes to show that when you're dealing with firearm, if you actually have some reverence and some rules, then you can prevent a lot of accidents. And And you know, you're here with Brady and we obviously are dealing with firearms in the world, and so I'm wondering you know how do you kind of see the relationship between, or do you know, gun violence prevention as it's just in the civilian world, with weapons versus the tools on set, and you know how you kind of enter into this space?

Dutch Merrick : 19:33

Well, and I'll answer your question from earlier, which I remember now that you had asked about what brings me here to Washington DC and why am I here today in this podcast, i found out that there was going to be a meeting a White House originated meeting about gun use on film and TV And promoting its safe use and, you know, used in safe ways on camera. And I found out and I said I want to be a part of that. I think we should have a voice of the crew and the actual armors that handle the guns and heck. For a year now I have been teaching this workshop on exactly the best practices. So the crux of the meeting, this White House meeting, was how can the entertainment industry, which demonstrates guns all the time used as a storytelling device, how can we show them used safely?

Dutch Merrick : 20:24

And is it a matter that the gun gets pulled out from the shoebox in the closet by grandpa or do they actually go to the gun safe and unlock it? Well, when we can accommodate that in a script and it and it makes sense, let's make sure that things are shown in the most safe way. The three basic gun rules that we boil down for the film industry are always point the gun in a safe direction, always keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire and always treat the gun as though it is loaded. Period We. That's the way we boiled it down for our, our world. So then you ask that we break that down a little further and say what is a safe direction, because that is open to interpretation. If we were standing above a cement floor and I had the gun pointed straight down, would that be a safe direction?

JJ Janflone: 21:05

No, these are ricochets.

Dutch Merrick : 21:07

It can ricochet right. it hits the cement. the lead can splatter, probably cut your foot right up or shoot your foot. Would it be safe to point the gun straight up? No, why not Same?

Kelly Sampson: 21:15

thing, or it could be a ricochet.

Dutch Merrick : 21:18

Yeah, there could be people above you, right. So you have to consider the circumstances, you have to consider the environment in which you are Handling the firearm on a set or in real world. What is a safe direction? And then keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire, like that is just number one. And so what I have taught my students and what's helped me is finding a replacement for where you put your finger, rather than just take your finger off the trigger and hang out in the air. Find another place on the gun a facet, a piece of you know metal that you can touch, something tactile that you can put your finger on every time you grab the gun and you know your fingers not on the trigger. Now you've got it. Now.

Dutch Merrick : 21:55

If we can demonstrate that on film, if we have the world's best spy agency or James Bond or whoever speak to that, that would influence the masses and help shift people's perceptions. I feel And this, i think, was a successful campaign with the seatbelt industry in the past and with not smoking, where the entertainment industry does shape perceptions. So how can we get film and television to help shape the narrative of what safety looks like and common sense? And you know I've been in the shooting community since I was a kid and every shooter that I know, every gun owner that I know, wants to see guns handled in a safe way. And every gun owner I know when they watch a TV show and they see something handled wrong or dangerously they cringe. And I remember it was the 80s or the 90s we'd start to watch the music videos and you see the people holding the gun sideways and we would all just kind of go God, please don't.

Kelly Sampson: 22:49

And you know, part of why you wanted to be a part of these conversations is because it's important, if you're talking about the depiction of guns on screen, to involve the crew and involve, you know, not just the front of camera And wondering, on a set, as an armor and as a prop master, what is the relationship between a prop master and armor and the director and that like, for example, if there's a script and there's a gun in the script, how much influence Do you have in terms of suggesting things to the director or tinkering with it, and what is that interplay like?

Dutch Merrick : 23:25

Well, oftentimes we'll get a script as a prop master. Script will come down to us. The writer has written in the word gun. That leaves it open to interpretation. Says the officer grabs his gun. So as a prop master, i may research what does that police department issue to their officers? Well, they happen to issue a Glock 17 or a Beretta 92. So I'll let the director know. Okay, in a show and tell Here's the pistol for this actor. It says he grabs his gun, here is his Beretta 92. And then the director often will go okay, is that what they use? Yes, that's what they use, great.

Dutch Merrick : 23:59

Or the director has something in mind I'd rather him have something like a nickel plated gun, something shinier, sexier. Or a writer may be very specific. If they're very hands on writer, such as in the case of SEAL team, when I work, they're going to tell us exactly This is a 416 model 2-7, you know, quad three. I just made all that up, but that's the kind of information that comes down our way, So we hear about it but, Oh, of course, No, i love that.

Dutch Merrick : 24:22

That's yeah I did make that up proudly. But no, we do. We get into the, into the weeds, we really get into the minutia on a show like SEAL team. And then there's other shows where grabs a gun is the term. So we're there, open to interpretation, and we can choose the gun to help flesh out that character as this character very conservative of their very flashy Are. They have a certain economic level, you know, do they have a $3,000 custom made pistol or do they have something that's a throwaway gun that was, you know, made in Indonesia? It could be any, anything along those lines.

Dutch Merrick : 24:53

Now the prop masters, ultimately the department head and makes creative decisions as far as what those props will be. A prop master often will then hire an armorer if there's enough guns in the show to warrant an armorer being there, if it's a big enough show. I did the feature SWAT, for example, and when we did SWAT back in I think it was 2003, the armor department handled 50, 60 different guns And so that they were making all those creative decisions and talking with the director and consulting with the prop master, but generally armor had a big enough piece of responsibility, they were making decisions. So we're overall, as a prop master, department head deciding those creative decisions with the director and writers. The armorer can do that.

Kelly Sampson: 25:36

I hope that cleared up some of the market. And I guess that kind of leads me to the next question. if we're talking about perhaps making sure that we show a safe right Or a lock, if a script says character grabs gun, would you have an opportunity to say how about we have him grab it from a safe and not the drawer or something like that? Absolutely.

Dutch Merrick : 25:57

Okay, absolutely So.

Dutch Merrick : 25:58

There's different phases of production where the writers have written something and it's gotten approval and the actors have read it By the time it gets down to us, we'll do a read through a circle up, with all the department heads, the costume designer, the set decorator, the design production designer, prop master, etc. All the department heads, and we'll read through the script and we'll go through, page by page, a line reading, and at those moments we'll have a chance to go Okay, i think in this moment maybe we should add this or that, and then we can also determine which department is responsible for that particular thing. Props has the unique ability to overlap with every other department on the set, and when I say every other department, i mean every single department from transportation. We might have a police car that we're putting skins on or a computer in. They brought the car, we brought the skins on the computer or costumes. We put a brooch on an outfit or something, a pin or metals on a Navy uniform. Again, we overlap with everybody, So that that is the time to decide.

Dutch Merrick : 26:55

At that read through And we as a prop master have the opportunity to be proactive and say, miss or Mr Director, i think this might be an opportunity for them to reach for their biometric gun safe and pull the gun from the side of the bed rather than from under their pillow.

Dutch Merrick : 27:12

And that point the director said oh, that's an excellent addition to the set And it shows something about the character that they're responsible. So we have influence, you know, so we can switch out. Is it going to be a six hour, is it going to be a Smith and Wesson, and is it going to be in a gun safe? And we may be able to shift it, you know, are they pulling it out of the shoebox in the closet? Or perhaps they've got a little dial safe and they tttt, pull it out? And if we can influence America and gun users around the world that way, i'd like to help shape perceptions more towards safety, more toward our basic rule number two Keep your finger off the trigger till you're ready to fire. If every actor did that in every scene, i think that would make a difference in the perceptions of the viewers For sure.

JJ Janflone: 27:50

But like so you. In addition to all of this, like you also direct, you also like you have other. I mean so you, you're a storyteller in a lot of different ways. Has this kind of I and I hate to call it like post-Ross that seems really but has has this? and then kind of the work that you've been doing at the show, your safety campaign, has this changed? kind of how you view any of your past work or any upcoming work that you'd like to do Beyond me?

Dutch Merrick : 28:14

obviously, the classes I think are huge and I'm guessing will evolve, but Yeah, i've been teaching the classes now, for May will be our one year anniversary, which I'm really proud to say. And we have. I brought in film professionals from all walks. I've had people come from Miami, new York. I just had a class of people come from Toronto, canada. Drove all the way to LA to take the class. I was just amazed.

Kelly Sampson: 28:38

And.

Dutch Merrick : 28:38

I've had a couple of union locals buy out the class for their members to put them through. One called me from San Diego and says we have a play coming to town where there's going to be guns used in the play and we want our people to be safe, so we're going to put them through your class And that that is what I'm hoping to generate. In retrospect I realized I wish I had perhaps been more proactive on scripts and influenced. You know, maybe the actor doesn't have his finger on the trigger, maybe they do pull it from a gun safe. Because now that this dialogue is raised with show your safety, it reminds me how we do influence the audience and how, as an armor or a prop master, we can lend that layer of safety to that scene.

Dutch Merrick : 29:23

And provided it gets the point across that the writer and director intends and doesn't interfere with their creative vision, i get it. They're going to have a character that doesn't have their finger off the trigger and that's intentional and it shows bad behavior for a reason And that's the point and I get it. But when we show the good guys, whenever we can show modeling best behavior, let's do it. In my workshop I put up several movie posters on my PowerPoint and we close up and it'll show. There's one called Night Shift with Jamie Foxx, and there's another guy in the poster and he's got his hands on this 45 automatic and his fingers on the trigger. He's looking over here and his hands crossed over the back of the receiver, which is exactly wrong.

Kelly Sampson: 30:08

Yeah, I could shave your thumb right off.

Dutch Merrick : 30:10

So there's two strikes in a film poster. Now, often is not an armor or prop master has no influence on who's doing the artwork for a poster. That's often done elsewhere. But down to that level, on film posters showing kids are emulating this, showing how he holds it, and he's holding it with his thumb crossed over. Do not do that. Always put your thumbs on one side of any gun, revolver or some automatic and keep your finger off the trigger. Let's put that in the poster too, shall we?

JJ Janflone: 30:37

Because I mean people don't. You don't need to go through a training class to buy a firearm in the US. So you're going to emulate, probably, what you see.

Dutch Merrick : 30:44

So if that's holding it that way, then, and not looking at your target, Yeah, of course My hopes are that with the training that I offer prop gun safety, that we'll get as many film professionals as possible, particularly gun wranglers, prop masters, people that handle the guns. but I've also opened the program up to first assistant directors who run the set, who are essentially the key safety officer on the set, and camera operators who are part of that intimate process of filming the guns, as well as a key grip who is in charge of camera safety. That's part of their title. So key grips, set medic set, teachers that are dealing with child welfare, that are working with the kids.

Kelly Sampson: 31:24

I've had some set teachers come through the class and they've really enjoyed it and found it in the enlightening And also, again, like in the work that we do every day, it's so interesting how little training is really required, especially, like you know, during the pandemic there were records set a first time gun owners and people who bought guns at a time when they could not attend a training because everyone was shut down and there's just no etiquette.

Kelly Sampson: 31:54

And I think about you know, if people were able to, if people had to go through a training for the real world that gave some basic safety etiquette, how many children would be protected and how many families would be protected? And it's just you know, there's these very obvious things that I really wish you know. in my dream world, something like your class would also be for civilians, you know like because it's not, And some people will go out and seek it and a lot of people won't.

Dutch Merrick : 32:24

You know, i've been an avid motorcycle rider for a lot of years and when I first got my motorcycle license in California I took the MSF Motorcycle Safety Foundation training. It was a two day course And I learned so much from that that I thought I knew already. But by taking that class it gave me a very, very different sense of what motorcycle riding was all about and how to do it. And along those lines I think that people taking some basic gun class really should be just the beginning of getting a gun period. Not walk into a gun store, get it and okay, i got my gun And hopefully the guy at the counter will give you kind of a quick run through and you don't hurt yourself. Like I don't think that's enough. So basic level of training for firearms ownership seems to be a minimum standard for me And within our business. What is our minimum standard? Well, let's get something like this out there. I would add the note and I've said this that our craft is inherently safe. The statistics bear out the fact that the chances of harm or death on a film set from a firearm are infinitesimally small And because of the high profile nature of Rust and a A-list actor in this accident happening. Our craft in particular has been taking the brunt of that, as they've literally tried to eliminate our jobs for the perceived safety of things like airsoft guns, which again are still lethal. But so we're working to rebuild the trust in our craft that what we do is safe and that we can set an example on camera for the rest of the world to follow in gun behaviors and gun handling. I guess I'll just expound a little bit more on what we're talking about. I'm proud of our craft and our craft. I think we set the standard for the world in Hollywood and whether you're filming in New York, toronto, atlanta, we have set the standard for safety and best practices And I think this is a great opportunity for us to do that on camera, to remember when we can nudge the script in a direction that helps lend best practices for the rest of the world. I mean, this is our role, this is something we can do as influencers.

Dutch Merrick : 34:41

I started out as a competitive shooter when I was a child, when I was like 15, i was doing practical pistol competitions IPSC, ipsc shooting And I grew up in a sort of a run and gunner and we go through a course and it's too timed. And so I grew up, and my issue growing up was the Second Amendment And it was protecting my rights to have that gun in competition because, as laws would come around and say you couldn't have a magazine more than 10 rounds, i'm like, wait, that's part of my competition thing, and so it was always up against the sort of what we consider anti-gunners, and I've been a life member of the California Rifle and Pistol Association who has endorsed my program. Now the workshop, i'm proud to say, and I'm grateful for the opportunity to be here in who my friends on the right would call enemy territory, frankly, the Brady Campaign. How can you step into their building? They're going to fry your brain Very frightening.

Dutch Merrick : 35:39

And I'm grateful for the opportunity to come flesh out the middle ground because all of us, no matter what side you're perceiving that you're on, can agree that gun safety and teaching gun safety, encouraging gun safety, is a no-brainer Like let's all. Everyone can get behind it. So I said count me in. I mean safer practices. That's what I do for a living on set. Let's broaden that out to the bigger community. So finding this common ground is just a great opportunity And I appreciate the opportunity to speak with you guys and share this common cause.

Kelly Sampson: 36:15

We appreciate it.

JJ Janflone: 36:16

Yeah for sure Hey want to share with the podcast. Listeners can now get in touch with us here at Red Blue and Brady via phone or text message. Simply call or text us at 480-744-3452 with your thoughts. Questions concerns ideas, cat pictures, whatever.

Kelly Sampson: 36:36

Thanks for listening. As always, brady's lifesaving work in Congress, the courts and communities across the country is made possible thanks to you. For more information on Brady or how to get involved in the fight against gun violence, please like and subscribe to the podcast. Get in touch with us at BradyUnitedorg or on social at Brady Buzz. Be brave and remember. Take action, not size. Thank you.